Curse

Shoitaan · May 29, 2006, 12:32 PM // 12:32

This is the same post I put on gwonline but I post again here because I know theres differences in player bases. Just posting on these 2 forums to get some kind of equality in responses...

any other suggestions on forums or are these 2 good enough?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dear Anet

Prophecies PvE combat was dull, completely lifeless and boring. Some people on the forums seem to think this was somehow more PvE friendly. I don’t understand the reasoning in which less of a challenge is more fun and I'm sure for every one person voicing their complaints on the boards there is at least 3 others playing and having a load of fun.

- The combat is faster and more intense - thank you (essentially what the other points are)

- The areas are smaller and more intense (difficult and a lot more fighting per square inch) - err.. not so much. Big areas were sorta fun in a way, I do agree that there is less to explore (MUCH less)... I seem to remember ages ago the ranger forum getting together and taking awesome screenshots from the more secluded areas in the game where no one went. That stuff was fun... and it was stuff like that, which led to the palaeontology threads - which were cool in their own weird way. But don’t destroy the intensity of combat while making the areas big and explorable again

Small areas bad, action-packed good!

The areas are harder - thank you, I no longer want to sleep while PvEing. A few guildies and me were talking about prophecies PvE long before factions was released, and we all felt the same way.
PvE was a means to and end
The end was PvP...
We felt slightly forced to go through the tedium of dull lifeless PvE in order to unlock skills for PvP (which us extremely casual players - at least during the semesters - do most of. Out of semester play habits are a different story

). PvE no longer feels like a chore!!
Please don’t take this away from those in your player base that crave a challenge and get their sense of accomplishment from a difficult task overcome. (Note: my personal definition for the word difficult does not apply to tasks that are time-consuming – at least ingame XD)

Not everyone thinks a lack of challenge is what makes you feel like a hero in PvE. A lot of people love the struggle because that makes the end reward all the greater.

The Factional conflict thing didn’t take off..
1) Some people don’t like to choose sides – not your fault no but…

Real issues

2) The whole warring factions thing was made horribly unnecessary because of earlier complaints by people... people were worried that you had to choose an allegiance in order to progress… and as point 1 said, people don’t like to choose sides. The end result being that you made picking sides completely pointless except for snappy looking armour.
This wasn’t a great move.
If you're going to have something like choosing sides, you either make it important or you don’t have it at all - one of the reasons why EQ2 was said to suck (never tried it, don’t want to - itemization based progression? eww). In EQ2 I read there being something about being good or evil but your choice ultimately being irrelevant to anything.

3) You introduced grind to a game that boasted no grind...
I'm mixed about this, you did what people asked you to in Prophecies which was give them something to do in PvE at end game... most of these people clearly have never played an MMO before so they didn't realise that end game in MMO is either PvP or PvE grind... and given that we don’t pay per month, its only understandable that you don’t release new quests and content (although it would be nice like you did for prophecies -**HINT HINT BETTER FINISH TO CRAPPY FACTIONS ENDING HINT**.
At the same time, you did stay true to your goal of not having necessary grind (unlike WoW *spits*) in that the only time you actually *need* faction to progress, you can earn all the faction you need from doing quests.
As for people complaining about the grind in the game, it is to my opinion that their complaints are baseless because –
The only reason you need to grind is for town control or armour. Both of which is not necessary (I say grind is not needed for amour because there is always non-factional armour options available. I have a hectic uni schedule this being my final year and all so between my subjects, thesis, and trolling XD I barely get time to play, yet I still manage to gain amber and so no one else has any excuse not to).
So like I said, I'm mixed about this but all in all I'm putting this in the 'good' column for GW: F - although I'm sure some others would disagree.

To these people I pose a question about the faction gain mechanism… if you don’t want to PvP, and you don’t want to quest and you don’t want to do challenge missions (both PvE), then why are they still playing the game?

But then the ‘grind’ is part of the factional conflict but has little bearing on the conflict itself… but this relates to the first point

This could get to big... I'll leave it simple.
Jeff said that each chapter would have its own unique thing, ergo no more factional conflict. Fine, but please have the 'unique thing' of the following chapters play a bigger role in the main plot - regardless of whatever apprehensions ‘some’ people have about choice

Please for the love of god dont make it as dull as it was before!!
Please!!
I'll love you for the rest of time!!
And possibly consider having your babies even though I'm a guy and Junior wasn't that good a movie!!

Bring back exploration
Keep the intensity
Keep the difficulty
Make the unique feature of each chapter worthwhile

Please keep the whole factions thing of rocket-line to 20. Some people complained that the journey to 20 was too short unlike prophecies etc etc... but right from the start the game was never about the journey, it was about what happened afterwards. Please keep it that way

You can slow the progression of people in the game and still have rapid attainment of 20 and exploration, you just need to make the story better

ok I'm done...

...

...

Please kick the voice actress that did Countess (or something) Danika in the teeth and NEVER hire her again...
In an Asian landscape the germanish kurzicks, who love art, music and the divine… have a countess that sounds like an NYC American woman voice acting in a bad hentai >

Rhea was nearly as bad...

lyra_song · May 29, 2006, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Theres only one part with mandatory grind and thats when you need 10k faction.

But i like the grind. .-. Its SOMETHING to grind for. In fact thanks to alliance battles, im constantly at 10k factions and sometimes i dont even notice it cause im having too much fun >.>

generik · May 29, 2006, 01:15 PM // 13:15

I actually find the whole "faction" concept too superficial.

In fact what I think would *really* excite people would be something like this:

Take for instance fort asphenwood. So it is the same fight over and over again, and what progression would that be?

Now suppose your victory and defeat on that one map would change the storyline/plot for YOUR character (ie: if you win on fort asphenwood, you will port to Cavalon and begins a new seige on the Luxons as part of the story's progression) that'd be interesting. Likewise your defeat would also impact your character's experience in the game. Now under such circumstances would *you* AFK and freeload in competitive battles anymore? I wouldn't think so.

Much more interesting. Especially in contrast to now when the only impact my alliance siding have on my experiencing is just that the NPCs in the other town would no longer talk to me. Big ***king deal. Who cares. The whole "fight for territory" fuss on the box is all a whole load of BS.

Now if fight for territory actually involves fighting to gain access of the map, that'd be worth playing and fighting for. That would be REAL PvPvE (a true merger of PvP and PvE where you actually partake in PvP as a genuine progression of the storyline and game world, not some joke of a plot device about some stupid war that started because of some moronic nutjob that went RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOoo over a fortune teller).

That people are AFKing and leeching in Fort are just a deeper reflection of the reality. People HATE this game, they can't bring themselves to play it. They HATE the stupid locked gates, they just want to get to the end game, cap their elites, buy their armor (yes, *outright* buy all the materials probably) and just get it over and done with.

And of course, sadly everything that Gaile yabbered about back in the day was just pure hype, when I originally heard the underlying gameplay behind Factions and the so called PvEvP I was like "Wow!"

When I see their actual implementation during release, the next thought I had was that Anet probably hired the cheapest programmers who just pick the easiest way out on EVERYTHING. Seriously, there couldn't have been a more mediocre implementation that'd "sort of" satisfy the earlier claims made by their PR mouthpiece.

Final verdict? I'd probably look at what Anet actually delivers in the future rather than trusting Gaile's words for that matter on future releases.

Stabber · May 29, 2006, 01:19 PM // 13:19

The only intense PvE foes are the Jade Brotherhood when they successfully pull off a chain Dragon Stomp while applying serious pressure with Triple Chop. The rest are still yawners.

Urgoz's Warren was neat for a while, but once you've figured out the strategy it's kind of ho hum.

I've gone back to PvP full time.

Effendi Westland · May 29, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Thank you for taking the time to write this up, so different from what you normally hear about factions. I'm 80% in agreement with you, which is more then usual :P

Numa Pompilius · May 29, 2006, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Definitely /unsigned.
I hate the new diablo-inspired combat.

lyra_song · May 29, 2006, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

I actually find the whole "faction" concept too superficial.

In fact what I think would *really* excite people would be something like this:

Take for instance fort asphenwood. So it is the same fight over and over again, and what progression would that be?

Now suppose your victory and defeat on that one map would change the storyline/plot for YOUR character (ie: if you win on fort asphenwood, you will port to Cavalon and begins a new seige on the Luxons as part of the story's progression) that'd be interesting. Likewise your defeat would also impact your character's experience in the game. Now under such circumstances would *you* AFK and freeload in competitive battles anymore? I wouldn't think so.

Now thats a cool idea. A mission map that shifts constantly...fun.

Quote:

Now if fight for territory actually involves fighting to gain access of the map, that'd be worth playing and fighting for. That would be REAL PvPvE (a true merger of PvP and PvE where you actually partake in PvP as a genuine progression of the storyline and game world, not some joke of a plot device about some stupid war that started because of some moronic nutjob that went RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOoo over a fortune teller).

Heres the problem. Theres already ENOUGH people complaining about how they dont want to PvP. I love that idea, but i know a lot of people would be quite pissed.

Quote:

That people are AFKing and leeching in Fort are just a deeper reflection of the reality. People HATE this game, they can't bring themselves to play it. They HATE the stupid locked gates, they just want to get to the end game, cap their elites, buy their armor (yes, *outright* buy all the materials probably) and just get it over and done with.

This is also a deeper reflection of people in general. Leechers and AFKers exist throughout the game, thats a fact. I doubt they hate the game, but some people are more lazy and quick to take advantage of any situation.

The locked gates can be annoying, but i think they are fine because they stop running throughout the WHOLE game. Theres still partial runs, which i think are fine.

The whole UAX instantly mentality of some players is quite annoying. It could be any game, but they would still want everything at once.

Quote:

And of course, sadly everything that Gaile yabbered about back in the day was just pure hype, when I originally heard the underlying gameplay behind Factions and the so called PvEvP I was like "Wow!"

When I see their actual implementation during release, the next thought I had was that Anet probably hired the cheapest programmers who just pick the easiest way out on EVERYTHING. Seriously, there couldn't have been a more mediocre implementation that'd "sort of" satisfy the earlier claims made by their PR mouthpiece.

Final verdict? I'd probably look at what Anet actually delivers in the future rather than trusting Gaile's words for that matter on future releases.

Well hype is hype. Although im satisfied mostly with factions, it could use a lot of improvement to be much greater. It holds A LOT of potential, and i think its being untapped. Programmers ALWAYS take the easiest way out of everything. ALWAYS. Cheating is common in programming.

But this has nothing to do with programming. This has to do with a flawed game design that does need further work

felinette · May 29, 2006, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Programmers ALWAYS take the easiest way out of everything. ALWAYS. Cheating is common in programming.

LOL. Really? How do we cheat? Compilers tend to be quite unforgiving. As for taking the easy way out...perhaps sometimes we WISH we could take the easy way out, but there are things like managers and requirements that make that impossible.

Stop spreading complete rubbish.

As for keeping the intensity of PvE, I don't mind a challenge, but when the entire game is just mob after mob after mob, it gets boring.

lyra_song · May 29, 2006, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by felinette

LOL. Really? How do we cheat? Compilers tend to be quite unforgiving. As for taking the easy way out...perhaps sometimes we WISH we could take the easy way out, but there are things like managers and requirements that make that impossible.

Stop spreading complete rubbish.

As for keeping the intensity of PvE, I don't mind a challenge, but when the entire game is just mob after mob after mob, it gets boring.

<.< hey i program. Things like to stop complicating things, break it down into reusable functions, etc.

felinette · May 29, 2006, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

<.< hey i program. Things like to stop complicating things, break it down into reusable functions, etc.

That's not cheating or taking the easy way out--that's just good practice.

As you said, the problems with Factions have more to do with design than implementation, so programmers and their techniques are irrelevent.

Haggard · May 29, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoitaan

Please kick the voice actress that did Countess (or something) Danika in the teeth and NEVER hire her again...
In an Asian landscape the germanish kurzicks, who love art, music and the divine… have a countess that sounds like an NYC American woman voice acting in a bad hentai >

Rhea was nearly as bad...

At least i can get people laughing with my impression of her.

nimloth32 · May 29, 2006, 03:11 PM // 15:11

i guess there should be mixture of prophecies and factions kind of pve..

Tarun · May 29, 2006, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Theres only one part with mandatory grind and thats when you need 10k faction.

But i like the grind. .-. Its SOMETHING to grind for. In fact thanks to alliance battles, im constantly at 10k factions and sometimes i dont even notice it cause im having too much fun >.>

Exactly. That's why some people want the level cap raised. Something to grind for that is enjoyable to most real, true gamers.

The Great Al · May 29, 2006, 03:49 PM // 15:49

I really want to make a new character and try out early Cantha, but the quests in both early and late cantha are so terrible. The game is only playable for the most part with a Warrior, so you can run from point A to point B.

felinette · May 29, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Al

I really want to make a new character and try out early Cantha, but the quests in both early and late cantha are so terrible. The game is only playable for the most part with a Warrior, so you can run from point A to point B.

I think it's playable with the other professions, but the frustration factor varies depending on what profession you play and whether you're henching it. Factions isn't well-balanced in that regard, IMO, which makes playing through it with different professions not all that appealing.

Ellipson · May 29, 2006, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

Exactly. That's why some people want the level cap raised. Something to grind for that is enjoyable to most real, true gamers.

I suppose FPS players that don't have to grind for anything aren't "real, true gamers" then.

MelechRic · May 29, 2006, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

Exactly. That's why some people want the level cap raised. Something to grind for that is enjoyable to most real, true gamers.

I must be one of those "fake" gamers because I don't enjoy endless grinding for levels. That's a treadmill that I'm happy to exit. I'm quite content with the level 20 cap in Guild Wars. In fact, it's part of the reason I'm still here. (The other is the PvP.)

Vermilion Okeanos · May 29, 2006, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Maybe Anet should put some line like "No grind for pvp efficiency, however players will have to grind a bit to make themselves look good" in the next interview or something.

Carth` · May 29, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51

I hate Factions PvE, Prophecies was much better.

Maria The Princess · May 29, 2006, 06:03 PM // 18:03

to all that generik said (will not quote cuz its too big) i couldnt agree more

/signed, and i will sign it over and over again

the only thing i REALY like about factions is the new cool graphics. after playing it for abit i just want the new skins of armors and weapons.